Overview
Slotter Casino has faced license revocation, due to a recent take-over by the infamous AffPower Group, whose crooked operations in the field of hacking and player detagging put it on the blacklist on most affiliate sites. This casino operates on the Real Time Gaming platform, and it was previously licensed by the UKGC and Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Its vast collection of slots, table games, video poker and a couple of bingo games used to be a favorite choice of many lucky US players.
Integrity/Trustworthiness
The casino and its sister sites are now owned by the AffPower Group, after the legal dispute between three brothers (real owners) went completely downhill. The Club World group is now operated by notorious individuals, known for featuring pirate Net Entertainment games with a false Random Number Generator, hacking to artificially improve organic traffic results (Black Hat SEO) and player detagging (stealing commissions and deposits). Players have been warned and advised NOT to play any games on the following sites: Aladdin’s Gold Casino, All Star Slots, Buzzluck, Club Euro Casino, Club SA Casino, Clubworld Casinos, High Noon Casino, Lucky Red Casino, Manhattan Slots and Reelspin.
Withdrawals used to take up to 7 business days, and there are only 4 banking options available at this moment: Wire Transfer, EcoPayz and Credit/Debit cards. The service level of the casino’s customer support has also dropped, and all players need to be verified to get any sort of help – which is utterly pointless. The maximum withdrawal is still $4,000 per week, and the minimum withdrawal is ridiculously high - $100 for credit/debit cards.
Player Complaints
No major complaints at top ten gambling portals and forums, except a great deal of disappointment amongst regular players, which is surely going to affect the group’s overall reputation.
Conclusion
Slotter Casino is no longer a favorite gambler’s destination, rather a place it should never become – a part of a rogue organization, whose reckless actions led to license revocation of many great sites. It scores zeroes in trustworthiness, payouts, bonuses and licensing all around the internet since the recent purchase and it is not going to come back from it, if the Affpower Group runs the show. Not a single person (newbie or professional) is going to deposit their money on any site, which has made so many felonies and violations against legitimate players. as they have.
Down to Brass Tacks
Slotter Casino is rated 1557 of 1631 casinos reviewed with a score of 1.6 out of 5 after 275 votes and it has 311 Slots offered from Real Time Gaming with an average rating of 3.2 out of 5 after 16184 votes.
Screenshot Gallery / Last Updated 23-02-2024
Slotter Casino Video Review
Overview
Slotter Casino has faced license revocation, due to a recent take-over by the infamous AffPower Group, whose crooked operations in the field of hacking and player detagging put it on the blacklist on most affiliate sites. This casino operates on the Real Time Gaming platform, and it was previously licensed by the UKGC and Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Its vast collection of slots, table games, video poker and a couple of bingo games used to be a favorite choice of many lucky US players.
Integrity/Trustworthiness
The casino and its sister sites are now owned by the AffPower Group, after the legal dispute between three brothers (real owners) went completely downhill. The Club World group is now operated by notorious individuals, known for featuring pirate Net Entertainment games with a false Random Number Generator, hacking to artificially improve organic traffic results (Black Hat SEO) and player detagging (stealing commissions and deposits). Players have been warned and advised NOT to play any games on the following sites: Aladdin’s Gold Casino, All Star Slots, Buzzluck, Club Euro Casino, Club SA Casino, Clubworld Casinos, High Noon Casino, Lucky Red Casino, Manhattan Slots and Reelspin.
Withdrawals used to take up to 7 business days, and there are only 4 banking options available at this moment: Wire Transfer, EcoPayz and Credit/Debit cards. The service level of the casino’s customer support has also dropped, and all players need to be verified to get any sort of help – which is utterly pointless. The maximum withdrawal is still $4,000 per week, and the minimum withdrawal is ridiculously high - $100 for credit/debit cards.
Player Complaints
No major complaints at top ten gambling portals and forums, except a great deal of disappointment amongst regular players, which is surely going to affect the group’s overall reputation.
Conclusion
Slotter Casino is no longer a favorite gambler’s destination, rather a place it should never become – a part of a rogue organization, whose reckless actions led to license revocation of many great sites. It scores zeroes in trustworthiness, payouts, bonuses and licensing all around the internet since the recent purchase and it is not going to come back from it, if the Affpower Group runs the show. Not a single person (newbie or professional) is going to deposit their money on any site, which has made so many felonies and violations against legitimate players. as they have.
Down to Brass Tacks
Slotter Casino is rated 1557 of 1631 casinos reviewed with a score of 1.6 out of 5 after 275 votes and it has 311 Slots offered from Real Time Gaming with an average rating of 3.2 out of 5 after 16184 votes.
Screenshot Gallery / Last Updated 23-02-2024
- Jurisdictions:
- Download Available: Yes
-
min deposit:
$35
F--
-
min withdrawal:
$50 (Bitcoin)/$200 (Wire Transfer)
F--
-
Cashout Limit:
$5,001 Weekly
F-- - Currencies:
-
cashout times:
Pending Time: 48 hours
Bitcoin: 24 hours
Check:/Wire Transfer: 5-7 business days
F-- -
Banking:
depositwithdrawal
Banking service Payz is not available for Players from Virginia, click here to find out why
- languages:
- Live Games: No
- Live Chat: Yes
-
Email:
support@slotter.casino
-
Telephone:
1-866-477-8066
- Withdrawal Lock: No
- Manual Flush: No
KYC Documents
- ID card, passport, driver's license
- Proof of address
- Proof of payment method ownership
- Selfie with ID documents
- Notarized documents potentially required
Documents may be submitted:
- Via dedicated page on the site
Slotter Casino Activity
Player Reviews
-
terrible
-
dislike
-
average
-
OK
-
awesome!
Your Feedback
Member's feedback (38)
Read AllThis casino deserves to be on the rouge list. It’s not a good casino and there are so many other ones were playing out in this one. When I play at a casino I’d like to at least feel like I got my moneys worth whether I’m with you or not. And this one is not one of those Ethan even get that feeling from.
This casino is blacklisted, so why bother risking your money and time here. It simply doesn’t make sense.
I tried this site a few years ago, before I realized who ran it. My experience wasn't bad, likely because I only made one deposit and had nothing to try to withdraw. Based on my experience with other sites they own, I definitely would not deposit here again because of how much trouble they've given me at their sister sites...
I tried this site a few years ago, before I realized who ran it. My experience wasn't bad, likely because I only made one deposit and had nothing to try to withdraw. Based on my experience with other sites they own, I definitely would not deposit here again because of how much trouble they've given me at their sister sites over completely valid withdrawals. be careful
Show moreThe minimum deposit is much to high for this casino in my opinion. Another casino on LCB's warning list. Players should definitely trust Latest Casino Bonus' judgement when it comes to these types of establishments. Not worth the risk of losing your money in the off chance you win and try to make a withdrawal only to get...
The minimum deposit is much to high for this casino in my opinion. Another casino on LCB's warning list. Players should definitely trust Latest Casino Bonus' judgement when it comes to these types of establishments. Not worth the risk of losing your money in the off chance you win and try to make a withdrawal only to get stalled out in the long run. Better places to play.
Show moreThis is one of the better casinos. they have good deposit options and good withdrawal methods. They have good bonuses so you can play with more money. there customer service is very kind and curtious. They have a large selection of games such as table games and slots. Overall Id recommned this casino to others. there payouts...
This is one of the better casinos. they have good deposit options and good withdrawal methods. They have good bonuses so you can play with more money. there customer service is very kind and curtious. They have a large selection of games such as table games and slots. Overall Id recommned this casino to others. there payouts are fast too!
Show moreNot sure why all the bad reviews slotter isn't that bad of a casino. I have found the staff rather friendly,average games but the DO pay. Not as many payment options but they do give pretty good incentives for vip players!
Slotter casino is not bad! I started here with no deposit bonus coupon! I think that i will never win on slots because i never believe in slots. But when i tried to play slots in this casino i realy enjoyed from wins.It`s the first time when i start to believe that winning in slots is possible. No problems with withdrawing....
Slotter casino is not bad! I started here with no deposit bonus coupon! I think that i will never win on slots because i never believe in slots. But when i tried to play slots in this casino i realy enjoyed from wins.It`s the first time when i start to believe that winning in slots is possible. No problems with withdrawing. Support is very helpful! I recommend to try to play slots in this casino
Show moreThis place is great, however the perks fall short of expectations. They seem to have trouble maintaining my interest, and have changed software platforms twice. I guess bet on soft didn't do too well for them, so they transferred over to RTG. I would not say this is not a worthy casino to play, but I would not myself go...
This place is great, however the perks fall short of expectations. They seem to have trouble maintaining my interest, and have changed software platforms twice. I guess bet on soft didn't do too well for them, so they transferred over to RTG. I would not say this is not a worthy casino to play, but I would not myself go out of my way to play here.
Show moreI signed up and i reedeed the code LCB30 and i played a lot on different slots like diamond dozen and ronin on their software version trying to meet the wagerin requirements but i was unlucky. The only thing that i don't understand if is a aggod casino to deposit and play on slots or even if is better to stay away from...
I signed up and i reedeed the code LCB30 and i played a lot on different slots like diamond dozen and ronin on their software version trying to meet the wagerin requirements but i was unlucky. The only thing that i don't understand if is a aggod casino to deposit and play on slots or even if is better to stay away from them :)
Show morePlayed the chip - finally - I hope i didn't sign up twice, because I was thrown off as to whether I actually played the last time, because of the internet (server?) problems. This time, I was able to get some play in. I was doing great, on the new Lucky6 - very cool game, with six reels & two-way play, when the game suddenly...
Played the chip - finally - I hope i didn't sign up twice, because I was thrown off as to whether I actually played the last time, because of the internet (server?) problems. This time, I was able to get some play in. I was doing great, on the new Lucky6 - very cool game, with six reels & two-way play, when the game suddenly froze, mid-spin. I checked my task manager and there was a wierd script on there - cefsubproc.exe. I had trouble getting rid of it and I will have to do a search for what it is, today. According to herdprotect : The executable cefsubproc.exe has been detected as malware by 42 anti-virus scanners. This virus which infects .exe files stops various security software and prevents some core Windows utilities from running. It also tries to download other files from a remote server, including other malware. ...Not good.
Show moreI am unsure of these new guys, but haven't heard anything bad yet. They are very keen on facebook promos, and getting into the mix on social media with their players. I have heard they have good bonuses, and fair comps. The game selection is excellent, and they really do try to keep contests and tourneys galore going to...
I am unsure of these new guys, but haven't heard anything bad yet. They are very keen on facebook promos, and getting into the mix on social media with their players. I have heard they have good bonuses, and fair comps. The game selection is excellent, and they really do try to keep contests and tourneys galore going to keep their players happy. Perhaps give their sign-up chip a try and judge for yourself, I thought their customer service was excellent, but have my favorite places to play already. I will give them a chance soon though, as they are sticking around, which is a good sign.
Show morethe interface at first seemed sleek and streamlined but then i realized how buggy it was, especially for mac players. all and all, great selection of rtg games and decent support staff, but not my favorite by any stretch of the imagination.
I remember I used to frequent this place a lot back in the dya. I deposited pretty often then the entire software became to routine to me . The bonuses they offer a ok, but it is just the overall experience I guess with the slots that leaves me wanting a bit more. 1/2 star for you
I can't get the no deposit bonus because Bulgaria is a restricted country for getting anything without deposit, like in most casinos. Unfortunately I don't see Skrill as a payment method, and this totally makes me never deposit here. Maybe in future if they start accepting skrill...
Can only play slots with bonuses, all gone too quick trying out their games.
Slotser became one of my favorite casinos. Here i can always play for free:) I have started there with no deposit bonus, later i just was playing with free chips and is always a posibility to win other no deposit bonus when you are reaching next level and spinning a wheel. So it's great way to spend my boring time at the...
Slotser became one of my favorite casinos. Here i can always play for free:) I have started there with no deposit bonus, later i just was playing with free chips and is always a posibility to win other no deposit bonus when you are reaching next level and spinning a wheel. So it's great way to spend my boring time at the job, to play just for fun but with a little purpose and goal to win real cash:) Also they are organizing contests on facebook, they are always very easy to win and you can get even 25000 free chips. it's cool:) Their support is very friendly,last time i even thought that a girl with name Melanie fell in love with me:))) She was so great! So i recomend this place for everyone:)
Show moreregistered and played the no deposit bonus both on when they were rtg and now betsoft, lost both times quickly, deposited 1 time after they changed slots and lost it too, no comment about withdrawal but everythign else seemed ok. Livechat was helpful too and email answers in some hours, seems like a trusted site but not...
registered and played the no deposit bonus both on when they were rtg and now betsoft, lost both times quickly, deposited 1 time after they changed slots and lost it too, no comment about withdrawal but everythign else seemed ok. Livechat was helpful too and email answers in some hours, seems like a trusted site but not sure if i will deposit again
Show moreA good casino especially coming from the Realtime Gaming franchise, they changed from being a Betsosft casino which some would think is an improvement I personally am not a massive fan of either software platform but have had bigger wins on RTG vs Betsoft, I played the no deposit bonus here and Ive placed this casino in...
A good casino especially coming from the Realtime Gaming franchise, they changed from being a Betsosft casino which some would think is an improvement I personally am not a massive fan of either software platform but have had bigger wins on RTG vs Betsoft, I played the no deposit bonus here and Ive placed this casino in my shortlist to play at outside of the multi platform casinos im registered with, this casino is good one and trustworthy too
Show moreI like the color of the casino. It kind of grabs you at least for me it did. I signed up with the no deposit and it went pretty fast, no biggy. I decided after that to make a deposit that to went just as fast. After that I was leary about making anymore deposits.
I tried this casino and really can't say that I find anything special about it...just another RTG...yawn..I agree with another user who wrote it would be a better more interesting casino if it offered tounaments. I do like the shape of the S and the color scheme on the logo...love the light blue background contrasted with...
I tried this casino and really can't say that I find anything special about it...just another RTG...yawn..I agree with another user who wrote it would be a better more interesting casino if it offered tounaments. I do like the shape of the S and the color scheme on the logo...love the light blue background contrasted with the dark blue S.... With so much competition in the onine casino industry something more than a good logo is needed to attract this potential customer, however. I would rate slotter a 2.5 simply because it is so average
Show more- Jurisdictions:
- Download Available: Yes
- Company: Owned By Apex Dynamics Ltd.
-
min deposit:
$35
F--
-
min withdrawal:
$50 (Bitcoin)/$200 (Wire Transfer)
F--
-
Cashout Limit:
$5,001 Weekly
F-- - Currencies:
-
cashout times:
Pending Time: 48 hours
Bitcoin: 24 hours
Check:/Wire Transfer: 5-7 business days
F-- -
Banking:
depositwithdrawal
Banking service Payz is not available for Players from Virginia, click here to find out why
- languages:
- Live Games: No
- Live Chat: Yes
-
Email:
support@slotter.casino
-
Telephone:
1-866-477-8066
- Withdrawal Lock: No
- Manual Flush: No
KYC Documents
- ID card, passport, driver's license
- Proof of address
- Proof of payment method ownership
- Selfie with ID documents
- Notarized documents potentially required
Documents may be submitted:
- Via dedicated page on the site
Slotter Casino Activity
Player Reviews
-
terrible
-
dislike
-
average
-
OK
-
awesome!
ericadawn11-0
2 years ago
Sr. Member
0.8 / 5
This casino deserves to be on the rouge list. It’s not a good casino and there are so many other ones were playing out in this one. When I play at a casino I’d like to at least feel like I got my moneys worth whether I’m with you or not. And this one is not one of those Ethan even get that feeling from.
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JoJoCali0510
2 years ago
Jr. Member
0.1 / 5
This casino is blacklisted, so why bother risking your money and time here. It simply doesn’t make sense.
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smills232
4 years ago
Newbie
2.9 / 5
I tried this site a few years ago, before I realized who ran it. My experience wasn't bad, likely because I only made one deposit and had nothing to try to withdraw. Based on my experience with other sites they own, I definitely would not deposit here again because of how much trouble they've given me at their sister sites...
I tried this site a few years ago, before I realized who ran it. My experience wasn't bad, likely because I only made one deposit and had nothing to try to withdraw. Based on my experience with other sites they own, I definitely would not deposit here again because of how much trouble they've given me at their sister sites over completely valid withdrawals. be careful
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Will90
5 years ago
Jr. Member
1.3 / 5
The minimum deposit is much to high for this casino in my opinion. Another casino on LCB's warning list. Players should definitely trust Latest Casino Bonus' judgement when it comes to these types of establishments. Not worth the risk of losing your money in the off chance you win and try to make a withdrawal only to get...
The minimum deposit is much to high for this casino in my opinion. Another casino on LCB's warning list. Players should definitely trust Latest Casino Bonus' judgement when it comes to these types of establishments. Not worth the risk of losing your money in the off chance you win and try to make a withdrawal only to get stalled out in the long run. Better places to play.
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Prince Bhasin
5 years ago
Full Member
This is one of the better casinos. they have good deposit options and good withdrawal methods. They have good bonuses so you can play with more money. there customer service is very kind and curtious. They have a large selection of games such as table games and slots. Overall Id recommned this casino to others. there payouts...
This is one of the better casinos. they have good deposit options and good withdrawal methods. They have good bonuses so you can play with more money. there customer service is very kind and curtious. They have a large selection of games such as table games and slots. Overall Id recommned this casino to others. there payouts are fast too!
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mamagotit
8 years ago
Full Member
5 / 5
Not sure why all the bad reviews slotter isn't that bad of a casino. I have found the staff rather friendly,average games but the DO pay. Not as many payment options but they do give pretty good incentives for vip players!
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Miracle
8 years ago
Sr. Newbie
3.2 / 5
Slotter casino is not bad! I started here with no deposit bonus coupon! I think that i will never win on slots because i never believe in slots. But when i tried to play slots in this casino i realy enjoyed from wins.It`s the first time when i start to believe that winning in slots is possible. No problems with withdrawing....
Slotter casino is not bad! I started here with no deposit bonus coupon! I think that i will never win on slots because i never believe in slots. But when i tried to play slots in this casino i realy enjoyed from wins.It`s the first time when i start to believe that winning in slots is possible. No problems with withdrawing. Support is very helpful! I recommend to try to play slots in this casino
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uhdunno
8 years ago
Full Member
2.5 / 5
This place is great, however the perks fall short of expectations. They seem to have trouble maintaining my interest, and have changed software platforms twice. I guess bet on soft didn't do too well for them, so they transferred over to RTG. I would not say this is not a worthy casino to play, but I would not myself go...
This place is great, however the perks fall short of expectations. They seem to have trouble maintaining my interest, and have changed software platforms twice. I guess bet on soft didn't do too well for them, so they transferred over to RTG. I would not say this is not a worthy casino to play, but I would not myself go out of my way to play here.
Show morePlease enter your comment.
Your comment is added.
leistat28
9 years ago
Hero Member
4 / 5
I signed up and i reedeed the code LCB30 and i played a lot on different slots like diamond dozen and ronin on their software version trying to meet the wagerin requirements but i was unlucky. The only thing that i don't understand if is a aggod casino to deposit and play on slots or even if is better to stay away from...
I signed up and i reedeed the code LCB30 and i played a lot on different slots like diamond dozen and ronin on their software version trying to meet the wagerin requirements but i was unlucky. The only thing that i don't understand if is a aggod casino to deposit and play on slots or even if is better to stay away from them :)
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leannep
9 years ago
Full Member
1 / 5
Played the chip - finally - I hope i didn't sign up twice, because I was thrown off as to whether I actually played the last time, because of the internet (server?) problems. This time, I was able to get some play in. I was doing great, on the new Lucky6 - very cool game, with six reels & two-way play, when the game suddenly...
Played the chip - finally - I hope i didn't sign up twice, because I was thrown off as to whether I actually played the last time, because of the internet (server?) problems. This time, I was able to get some play in. I was doing great, on the new Lucky6 - very cool game, with six reels & two-way play, when the game suddenly froze, mid-spin. I checked my task manager and there was a wierd script on there - cefsubproc.exe. I had trouble getting rid of it and I will have to do a search for what it is, today. According to herdprotect : The executable cefsubproc.exe has been detected as malware by 42 anti-virus scanners. This virus which infects .exe files stops various security software and prevents some core Windows utilities from running. It also tries to download other files from a remote server, including other malware. ...Not good.
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uhdunno
9 years ago
Full Member
2.5 / 5
I am unsure of these new guys, but haven't heard anything bad yet. They are very keen on facebook promos, and getting into the mix on social media with their players. I have heard they have good bonuses, and fair comps. The game selection is excellent, and they really do try to keep contests and tourneys galore going to...
I am unsure of these new guys, but haven't heard anything bad yet. They are very keen on facebook promos, and getting into the mix on social media with their players. I have heard they have good bonuses, and fair comps. The game selection is excellent, and they really do try to keep contests and tourneys galore going to keep their players happy. Perhaps give their sign-up chip a try and judge for yourself, I thought their customer service was excellent, but have my favorite places to play already. I will give them a chance soon though, as they are sticking around, which is a good sign.
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Bgdubs
9 years ago
Sr. Newbie
3 / 5
the interface at first seemed sleek and streamlined but then i realized how buggy it was, especially for mac players. all and all, great selection of rtg games and decent support staff, but not my favorite by any stretch of the imagination.
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jcbossi209
9 years ago
Full Member
0.5 / 5
I remember I used to frequent this place a lot back in the dya. I deposited pretty often then the entire software became to routine to me . The bonuses they offer a ok, but it is just the overall experience I guess with the slots that leaves me wanting a bit more. 1/2 star for you
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sup3rhot
9 years ago
Full Member
2 / 5
I can't get the no deposit bonus because Bulgaria is a restricted country for getting anything without deposit, like in most casinos. Unfortunately I don't see Skrill as a payment method, and this totally makes me never deposit here. Maybe in future if they start accepting skrill...
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brophy19
9 years ago
Sr. Newbie
3 / 5
Can only play slots with bonuses, all gone too quick trying out their games.
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Vanilipas
9 years ago
Jr. Member
5 / 5
Slotser became one of my favorite casinos. Here i can always play for free:) I have started there with no deposit bonus, later i just was playing with free chips and is always a posibility to win other no deposit bonus when you are reaching next level and spinning a wheel. So it's great way to spend my boring time at the...
Slotser became one of my favorite casinos. Here i can always play for free:) I have started there with no deposit bonus, later i just was playing with free chips and is always a posibility to win other no deposit bonus when you are reaching next level and spinning a wheel. So it's great way to spend my boring time at the job, to play just for fun but with a little purpose and goal to win real cash:) Also they are organizing contests on facebook, they are always very easy to win and you can get even 25000 free chips. it's cool:) Their support is very friendly,last time i even thought that a girl with name Melanie fell in love with me:))) She was so great! So i recomend this place for everyone:)
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chohlet
9 years ago
Full Member
2.5 / 5
registered and played the no deposit bonus both on when they were rtg and now betsoft, lost both times quickly, deposited 1 time after they changed slots and lost it too, no comment about withdrawal but everythign else seemed ok. Livechat was helpful too and email answers in some hours, seems like a trusted site but not...
registered and played the no deposit bonus both on when they were rtg and now betsoft, lost both times quickly, deposited 1 time after they changed slots and lost it too, no comment about withdrawal but everythign else seemed ok. Livechat was helpful too and email answers in some hours, seems like a trusted site but not sure if i will deposit again
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Gambinobit
9 years ago
Hero Member
3.5 / 5
A good casino especially coming from the Realtime Gaming franchise, they changed from being a Betsosft casino which some would think is an improvement I personally am not a massive fan of either software platform but have had bigger wins on RTG vs Betsoft, I played the no deposit bonus here and Ive placed this casino in...
A good casino especially coming from the Realtime Gaming franchise, they changed from being a Betsosft casino which some would think is an improvement I personally am not a massive fan of either software platform but have had bigger wins on RTG vs Betsoft, I played the no deposit bonus here and Ive placed this casino in my shortlist to play at outside of the multi platform casinos im registered with, this casino is good one and trustworthy too
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tinker
9 years ago
Sr. Member
2.5 / 5
I like the color of the casino. It kind of grabs you at least for me it did. I signed up with the no deposit and it went pretty fast, no biggy. I decided after that to make a deposit that to went just as fast. After that I was leary about making anymore deposits.
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Vanenhox
9 years ago
Sr. Member
2.5 / 5
I tried this casino and really can't say that I find anything special about it...just another RTG...yawn..I agree with another user who wrote it would be a better more interesting casino if it offered tounaments. I do like the shape of the S and the color scheme on the logo...love the light blue background contrasted with...
I tried this casino and really can't say that I find anything special about it...just another RTG...yawn..I agree with another user who wrote it would be a better more interesting casino if it offered tounaments. I do like the shape of the S and the color scheme on the logo...love the light blue background contrasted with the dark blue S.... With so much competition in the onine casino industry something more than a good logo is needed to attract this potential customer, however. I would rate slotter a 2.5 simply because it is so average
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