Loose Change

Hiya LCB'ers,

Maybe i have been living in a cave but i was just recently asked if i saw the video Loose Change that is on youtube. Thinking it was about finding change in my couch cushion i soon learned it was far from it.

I finally made my way over to youtube a couple weeks ago and decided to watch it. Over an hour in length i sighed a deep breath and half willing to watch it. After i got through the first 15 minutes or so i began to see just how compelling and disturbing it was.

Never in a million years would my mind even go to what they are suggesting happened on 9/11. It raises questions and i must admit it has haunted me and taunted me ever since.

I don't want to believe a word of it or should is say i refuse to. But some of the questions raised do make you stop and wonder.

Has anyone heard or seen this video? I would love to hear comments on it. If you have not as much as it may seem to be just too long to have patience for i hope you can find the time to watch it.

Loose Change

Lips

I wouldn't go that far as to say that the government produced the attacks on 9/11 to justify war, that seems a bit too much. What I do know is that those attacks could have been prevented, there were warnings all over the place and it's still a mystery to me why the Bush administration didn't do something about it. Was it just out of pure stupidity or did they keep their eyes closed for a reason?

Hey Lips, isn't this something? Some sicko, trying to twist things around, so he can benefit from one of the biggest, (if not the biggest tradgedy) in American history. I only hope the victims relatives don't see this.
This dude should be put on trial, just like the rest of the terrorist, from BinLadins group.
                                      Rico

It is certainly hard to imagine that our gov would of planned such a conspiracy. But basically all these guys did was raise questions and make us think. I can't really fault them for that.

I try to see things with a very open mind and they had the right to raise these questions. It's just to painful to think it could possibly be true.

But surely we must speculate that there are things the gov does hide from us, the American public and the world. It's not easy to rise to the top and be a Super Power. And once you are there, to maintain it has to get pretty ugly at times don't you think?

what an un-American political response! You ought to be ashamed of yourself!
                                 Rico

The only one who should be ashamed is you RIcco. And you should choose your words with more care.

Just coz someone is asking questions doesnt make them anti American. Last time I checked USA was the land of the free, and everyone is entitle to their opinion.

Lips is a LCB Moderator and youll either show her a deserved respect or your membership will be terminated.

You are free to disagree but your personal attacks won't be allowed.

Zuga

OMG Ricco~~~ >:( that was horrible remark and I can't agree with the point of view you are taking.
The reason behind the creation of this country was the freedom of thought, speech and life; freedom.
One cannot expect the fully trust the government; the age of innocence ended with WWII.
Slowly, the government has been changing and becoming more corrupt.
Corporations have slowly become more powerful and manipulative.
Citizens have slowly become more aware and questioning the motives behind various events.
If someone can see a point of view that other cannot; you should not attack them because you don't see or believe their point of view.
If someone like Lips questions things because of something she saw, that is her right to do so.
If you do not have similar questions, that is your right.
To attack her personally because of her questions goes against the very reason behind the creation of this country.
It is not "un-American political response" as you put it; it is very much an American response.
Otherwise, we should all give up our rights entirely and not ask any questions.
So, Rico, as Voltaire said "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Hey buddy did you question your govt about your rights to gambling online? Thats what i thought. Nuff said.

Lips Un-American?? Do you actually read her posts on this forum? Ya don't get any more patriotic than lips.

Well put Nan, and the Voltaire's quote said it all.

I did some research and I found that Korey Rowe ( one of the producers of this documentary ) is an ex US solider who served in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Iraq. * for the reference see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korey_Rowe .

So Rico is it fair to say he is a terrorist and compare him to a Bin Laden? Seems to me he is more likely a true American patriot than a terrorist.

I understand the sensitivity of this topic to all Americans, as the 9/11 is one of the most infamous days in the modern history. But the day when Americans stop asking questions is the day when they lose their freedom.

Zuga

Thanks for the kind words i really do appreciate them.

I at times create these kind of threads that are controversial to add some good conversations and debates between us. There are moments i must admit i do hesitate due to the nature of the subject. Politics and religion can certainly get us fired up.

I don't mind disagreeing and in fact it makes for good debating. I won't defend myself as far as the 'un American" comment rico because in essence i think you know perhaps more then anyone on this forum that it's not true. I think it goes well beyond politics for responding the way you did. I'll admit, it did sting a bit but not because of what you said but why you said it. I think we both know what that reason is.

I hope we can all continue to have good times and share our opinions. Thats what is so great about the LCB family. I think Rena put it well in her post about how respectful everyone is on such controversial topics. I couldn't agree more, that's what sets this forum apart from the rest!

Lips

oh boy, we're in it now! Zuga, may I suggest you do a bit more research on this Korey Rowe. I havn't. When one takes  the oath, to become a member of our military, (as I have), one agrees to not say anything againist their country, as this person is doing, and the negative propaganda thats included in this sad chapter of American history.
If you want to throw me out of this forum, you have that right too, but then you are violateing free speech.
I'm sure if you reseached more, there will be many issues with this Korey Rowe, that would be considered un-American, politicaly incorrect, etc.
Lips, I don't have anything againist you, but your timing and thought on this issue is wrong, If the LCB members agree with you on this issue, this would be a forum, I choose not to take part in.

                                Rico

Hmmmm interesting comments rico. Don't really understand what you think my stand is on this issue. Maybe you read into it more than it really is.

As far as free speech you got it here at the forum. And you and i both know you have had your fair share of less then nice free speech here don't we?

Free speech is one thing, lack of respect is entirely another. We are different then some other forums that everyone here is treated with respect. It's not allowed to be anything less, whether it is a member or a moderator. LCB is built upon a strong family community where we all agree to disagree.

In order to have free speech there has to be an atmosphere where members are not afraid to take a stand on their view points. I love to debate but at the same time i don't want to instill fear in anyone being belittled for speaking there mind therefore a certain amount of order needs to be implemented to allow free speech. 

Imagine fighting and putting each other down because we don' agree with them. Members would be afraid to comment.

I agree with you whole heartedly rico if this is not the type of forum you don't agree with then by all means don't take part in it.

Lips

I will "throw you out" if I see any more personal attacks from your part. If you cant show the respect to the ppl behind this forum then your stay is no longer welcome.

And you are the one who abused the freedom of speech with your personal attacks. Freedom of speech is everyone's right but its also a responsibility, therefor you are free to say what ever you want , however you will be held accountable for your words.

While you are here you WILL obey the forum rules and be respectful toward my Moderators. Other than that you are free to share your views on this sensitive subject.


Zuga

Lips has basically made her opinion clear. The video is public and she was looking for some discussion on the content. No where in her words has she advocated the suggestions made within it.

That said, I'm simply not following what the issue is here. Simply stating that you don't agree and the thoughts expressed in the video are far fetched would've been sufficient.

If someone wishes to comment on the topic and not the character or core values of one another, please do.

Rico,shame on you This forum and lips are all about freedom of speech.I have never seen them correct or ban someone unless it was trully called for.I love my counrty but they have not always been honest with us as in the illnesses the first responders from 911 have gotten and how about Vietnam (agent orange...for one.) I could go on but this is not about the US but about you saying spiteful and hurtful things about lips. :'(We all have the right to disagree but not to accuse someone of something that is so very untrue. Lips being unamerican....I think not Maybe it wasn't your intent for it to sound that way and I can understand that but you owe lips an apology and by the way lips we <3 you

Good Sunday morning, so now I'm the idiot, for not supporting Korey  Rowe, Lips, and Zuga. Let me say this, people in here believe I attacked Lips for being un-american. My apologies, Zuga my apologies to you, also.
So, how is one going to present their opinion, without the threat of being thrown off this site, Zuga? It's nice to see you have loyal people here, supporting your agenda. I thought I supported you too. However on this issue, I can not, nor will not support any propaganda or negative remarks against the United States of America.
Zuga, why don't I post a few facts, instead of theories that have been posted here.
1) In your second post to scold me, for attacking Lips, you immediatly put up a link to Korey Rowe, and describeing him as an afgan vet. Yet you chose not to post the fact that he was arrested for desertion and selling heroin. People could possibly get a clearer picture, of where I'm coming from, and a clearer picture in their own minds, what that worthless piece of propaganda this Korey Rowe put out.
2) If one wants to view the loose change video, and believe it, thats their right. However, as that video wants one to believe 911 never happened, unfortunately it did. One just has to ask the people of New York, and the victims families.
3) A plane flew into the north tower, and a plane flew into the south tower. A plane flew into the pentagon, and a group of heros was able to get some control of a fourth plane, so it could crash into the countryside, avoiding the White House. Thousands of people, lost their lives. This is fact, not theory.
Now that some facts have been posted, and peoples minds may have been re-freshed, my feelings won't be hurt at all, if you choose to throw me out.
To end, without pointing a finger at anyone, and not attempting to diss-respect anyone, for the people who believe these facts are debateable, one can only question what agenda do these people have, because it sure wouldn't be in the best interest of the USA.
                                          Rico

Rico,

I think you are missing the entire point and have taken this topic from a level of attack and persecution of 911 and turned it into your own assaults at LCB. As far as “questioning the people who feel this topic is debateable and what is the agenda” could only be a direct question towards me since I started this topic.

I think I stated pretty clearly that I just recently saw this video, though it has been around since 2006 or there abouts. I came here to share with members and to get there feedback. If I had any agenda at all trust me it was to hear members point of view and to get feedback of such horrific allegations. I was curious to know if anyone felt a conspiracy of this nature was possible. Because to me as I stated, it is just to painful for my mind to accept.

Why does this stir me so? Because I am American and I would fight to the death to defend this country. If I didn’t love my country so much I would not of made mention that it “taunted me and haunted” me ever since I watched it.

I was looking for and found it with the only positive feedback I got from you, is the character profile that you have suggested this Korey Rowe was. It brings me a sense of relief. At the same time if there is those that speculate this could indeed be true I won’t chastize them for it either. I asked for thoughts and I have to respect them.

This was to have an open discussion of opinions not only from US members but from members from other countries.  We as a nation have taken a lot of critism from around the world. Is this yet another thing that is believed to be true about us? I want to hear some of the facts you stated so I can shout from the roof top on my American soil ‘ITS NOT TRUE” and here is why! I feel in may ways like a child that has been told for the first time there is no Santa. I want to believe and I have to believe none of this is true. At the same time i WILL respect the opinions of everyones thoughts.

I may pose lots of questions on this forum to generate thought provoking conversations. But rarely do I post a thread that is a personal plea for answers. I did it because of my love and passion for the US.

I may be American and I love my country but let me remind you I don’t want to live with blinders on and as Rosebud stated we certainly have had some covers up. Particularly against our very own people.

The fact you called me “Un American” cuts deep but I can take it on the chin. What I really question is YOUR agenda. I can’t speak publically as to what has happened and been discussed with you through private messages here at the forum because it is private. If I could, perhaps everyone would get a better understanding of why I question your agenda.

Of all members to question being “thrown out” of LCB, you should be the last to ask that. Because as you and I know, you have pushed the limits more then once. And I have handled these discretions without ever taking it to a higher level of authority at LCB. Why? Because everyone deserves a chance and forgiveness and we are all human.

I have proven to you on a personal level that I have forgiven you. I would think that would of gave you and I a better understanding and connection on this forum. Apparently it has not because you came right back at me with both barrels. And that my friend was a personal slap in my face. You took my vulnerability and my good faith in you and stepped on it.

If you want to discuss what the real debate and discussion is then great. If you have any other motives please leave them at the door before you check in.

Lips

Lips, when you first posted the video, I loaded it up and watched it for 11 minutes and then I had to go out.  I was going to say how (from just the first 11 minutes) it really made me think about all the events leading up to that terrible tragic day but decided to wait until I had managed to watch the entire video before I commented. I've still not yet found the time to watch it in it's entirety.  But watching this thread "unfold" to how it has, made me think twice about posting a reply but I feel that I should in support of you and Zuga.

I'm very surprised and extremely disappointed with the attitude that Rico has displayed towards you and Zuga and I have to say I'm still struggling to understand why he would say the things that he did. 

Kudos to you for staying so calm.

blue

I don't get it  We are NOT defending Korey Rowe but zuga,lips,lcb and our right of free speech.I think you have missed the whole point rico,it's about your personnel attacks and if we somehow question our goverment we are unamerican.I do not believe in the conspiracy theory but I don't want my head stuck in the sand either and not have some thought provoking thoughts after all it is good to stimuli the brain.I for one love a good debate but not at the cost of personnel attacks

Thanks blue for your kind words. I think what makes me the saddest is for you or anyone to feel uncomfortable share your thoughts on the topic. It was the last thing i would ever want to have anyone feel.

I hope we can all move past this and hopefully be what we all truly are......a family community that can discuss things like you would at a kitchen table with a good cup of coffee and at the end of the day we all know its ok to agree to disagree.

I am sorry for all the drama on this thread and sorry it went in the direction it did. Everyone on this forum is important and everyone i embrace. That may sound cliche but it's the honest to God's truth.

Lips

Lips,you have nothing to be sorry for.We should be able to have a civil  discussion on any topic and not have it become personnel.I agree maybe it's time to take a breather and put this topic to rest.

I agree, you have nothing to be sorry for Lips.  You posted a great topic and video which is thought provoking in so many ways, but you did nothing at all wrong.  I'm just sorry that you were spoken so rudely to.  It really is unacceptable behaviour.

blue

Regretfully, this discussion seems to have spun off in a different direction.
Everyone has the freedom of speech... that much we can agree upon.
Discussing other point of views to a particular topic can be great discussion and seems to me that is the whole point of having a great debate.
However, when you attack someone personally, as the above quote states, a discussion becomes an argument.
People tend to forget websites have the same rules of conduct as a brick and mortar location with or without realizing it.
One cannot go into such locations and confront someone face to face with such a statement; that is why businesses can refuse service to such individuals.
Let me remind that LCB is a business and as such, can refuse service to individuals which has nothing to do with quashing your right to free speech.